I listen to a lot of podcasts, many of them about politics. The most interesting ones are where people with different views discuss issues, particularly when both parties are well informed and willing to push back. Unfortunately, they’re rare.
This morning while going for a walk, I listened to a great pod on UnHerd. It explored the idea of how Hungary, and in particular its leader Viktor Orban, has become so popular among many conservatives in America. The guest was an American Professor called Gladden Pappen, who now works in Budapest, and believes in a postliberalism. While explaining all those views is beyond the scope of this post, the gist of it is that the goals of Liberalism (classical, not the American version) put an enormous emphasis on giving the individual the most opportunity to determine for themselves what “the good life” looks like. This means free minds, free markets, and free association and whatnot.
The issue, as far as Dr Pappen sees it, is that “centrist” politics are just the intersection of the Venn diagram between socially progressive left wing ideas and economically libertarian ideas supported by the right. If you read The Economist, you will be familiar with this disposition. This is personally my preferred brand of politics, but increasingly I am becoming an outlier. I have long since suspected, and see more evidence every day, that the average person is more socially conservative, and more economically protectionist, than what the current political ecosystem offers. When I chat to Americans about politics, which I love to do, I often hear criticisms of wealth redistribution programs such as welfare (largely aimed at the unemployed) but barely any criticism of programs such as tariffs or economic protectionism, which are utility distributing and efficiency lowering ideas.
Viktor Orban is being celebrated by a faction of conservatives in America because he is taking on culturally conservative topics, while ignoring common economic conservative principles. A clear example is his family policies, where women who have a child have any student debt halved, if they have another, it is wiped out. There are other tax policies that are centred firmly on incentivising family formation in an effort to turn around falling birth rates. While there has been some increases in the birthrate, it is still low, and below replacement.
Tomorrows article will be a deeper dive into this topic, but I will return it to its original purpose, pushing back.
The interview was one of the best I had heard in awhile, largely due to the masterful pushing back by the moderator, Freddie Sayers. It wasn’t aggressive, nor timid. Mr Sayers clearly pushed back on Dr Pappen when appropriate, and thus forced him to refine his arguments. I learned a lot from it, and enjoyed it immensly.
Pushing back on people’s ideas isn’t easy, and a deft touch is required. But when done right, it is terrific. I encourage you to give it a listen/watch, it’s under an hour and a good one, especially the first half.
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